Oh yes, know them both. I was referring to VUSA, Vineyard Scholars--crickets from them. Vineyard Canada so far as I know had a protracted discussion that was generally more open, but led to the same result. I gave my paper at SVS in Anaheim 2013--and no response to my paper from anyone in leadership (one personal conversation with Rich Nathan). Cone of silence. My efforts to interact with the people putting the Vineyard LGBTQ position paper together unsuccessful. I think VUSA leadership decided the issue was not "disputable" so they refused to dispute. For them to do otherwise would have supported my thesis that it was disputable. Though grievous at the time and in the aftermath, they spared me remaining in a setting riddled with anxiety and ultimately unwilling to consider the harm done to LGBTQ people by their policies. Vineyard is not a safety/sozo place for LGBTQ people or those who love them.